You’re Beating Them, When…

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10 Responses

  1. old school says:

    Argento was a bum.

  2. Ken says:

    You only say that because his candidate beat the System, right?

  3. Gatorman-UF says:


    The biggest strength of John is that he is not Greek, he has not been truly corrupted by the system. When you are raised in the system it is different than coming into the sytem as John has done. You can argue differently if you like, but I have seen John work his butt off for SG and in every organization he is part of. He got where he is by his personality and the strength of his work.

    No offense to old school(yes I know who you are), but Argento’s true worth to the Access campaign was being an a behind the scenes “we tried this and failed” guy (even in that I would say Andre had a lot more to do with it) and not as spokeman for the indy causes. Also I would note, that the Access win had a lot more to do with Innovate’s bad choices (I vote for whoever mommy and daddy tell me to and why would BSU choose to have the treasurer instead of President, should have chosen a hispanic), pissed off asians who wanted their Asian Studies and Institute, a qualified candidate (not a repeat of the Student Alliance Person the year before), and of course the clincher, Andy Marlette’s cartoons.

    To say that Jamal had no ties to the system is misleading. Jamal wanted the FBK endorsement. He was an FBKer. He ran on a Greek ticket before that. Trust me he had ties. But everyone knew that Scott was the Greek candidate so why bother with another indy announcing you.

    Should John upplay Jared’s connections to the system, yes. But I don’t think that is wisest thing here. Some might have their doubts about John’s loyalty to the system, so in upplaying Jared’s loyalty to the system it makes him look like a viable option. (This will be in Jared’s to do list).

  4. Ken says:

    Gatorman, the problem with John is exactly what you said – some doubt John’s loyalty to the system. So he really can’t play all of the same cards that the independent parties have played, or he really will send more Greeks over to Jared’s camp.

    John is a lot like Chris Carmody – a non-Greek who voluntarily joined the System and paid his dues. The only really difference is John finds himself one of the strongest possible candidates, while Chris was insisting on running in 2002, at the same time the Honor Court Chancellor (Nikki) was.

    John benefits from Jared thumbing his nose at the System, and there not being many viable options. But John is still the System candidate and thus Jared isn’t.

    John, as the System candidate, will need a System campaign to be successful; he’s too much aligned with the SG establishment now to pretend otherwise. Likewise, Jared needs to run the Independent campaign, and even though he can’t pretend he’s completely anti-System, he will need to run on the Independent themes of reform, accountability, diversity.

    Once this gets going, the two campaigns have a lot to potential to scramble the conventional wisdom. But there is danger and risk for both sides in doing so.

  5. Gatorman-UF says:

    I would only argue John’s main goal is to reach out to the independents not the Greeks. He will have his underlings doing that. He will have the Greek votes all 4400 of them or so (yeah they have more than that, but a conservative estimate). He needs the last 700-1500 to come from him and his minority canidate and their ability to volunteer and get votes.

    That’s where John’s status as an Indy. You reference Chris. You are right, if Chris waited a year, he probably gets the nomination in the future. But here is the difference, Chris was seen as the indy despite some Greek support. John has the ability to tap into the traditional SG Greek, the reform minded Greel (I hate the system Greeks) and more important the non-greeks. He needs to play up his indy streak though.

    I look at this way, you can rally the base as you are suggesting and hope to get more of them out. Or you can try to pull in the people outside your base.

    Do the Dems go to a centrist or a liberal? Some would say they should to Rep. Nancy Pelosi liberal others see Dems needing an Sen Evan Bayh or Gov Warner
    centrist Dem. Do you go further left to try and pull the middle or do you meet the middle and sell them on you?

    I think you meet the voters in the middle. As for the issues that will make a difference. There aren’t any. The message is all that matters. If the message is that I am one of you and here is the proof, I think John can sell it. Jared will make it harder to sell.

  6. Ken says:

    I just don’t see John as being able to get the entirety of the Greek support behind him, especially if he spends his campaign reaching out to Independents.

    Granted, of any System candidate since (ironically) Nikki, he’s got the best chance to pull some Independent support. But, on the same token, Jared has the best chance since Chris to pull Greek support.

    Unfortunately, UF is not America. Our turnout rates are pathetically low. We need candidates with a strong attachment to communities of support to muscle enough voters in to win.

    I don’t know John, I don’t know what he’s done except SG. But unless he can connect with groups outside of the System, just being an Independent won’t work. Likewise, Jared will have to pull a bit to the left to keep the Independents on board.

    Like I’ve said – I think this campaign has potential to rescramble the calculus. I’m just not convinced that either John or Jared has what it takes to either rally their base or convince a skeptical middle ground.

    And this late start to the official campaign isn’t helping.

  7. old school says:

    So the gatorman knows old schools “secret identity”. I exactly did not keep it a secret. Ok Ken I am reading all these posts and these kids today think they know it all. If they only knew the behind the scenes stuff that went into any campaign, let alone that Access campaign. Does he think Jamal thought of that campaign himself. Does he think Andre ran that campaign all by himself, especially since niether had ever run a student body campaign. They had been apart of campaigns but never at the top.

    Actually Ken you do know what went into that Access campaign, as Argento was on the cell phone with you a good part of that campaign while you were up at GW. Maybe they wouldn’t be so quick to dismiss Argento or others like him if they really knew.

  8. old school says:

    Actually it probably was less than a good part of the campaign cell phone, but still you were on the phone with argento at some point.

  9. Ken says:

    Yes, James and I conversed a fair amount during the Access and the first Impact campaigns, although with Impact it was more as long-distance observers.

    There’s a lot that goes into a campaign, especially behind the scenes, and the so-called System candidate can’t run any campaign he wants and expect it to work. Even the Independent candidates – the successful or at least strong ones – have a lot of bartering and organizing to do.

    James may have been with Access as the guy who said “X doesn’t work because we tried” but that is valuable information for a party that had virtually no veterans running it. And by knowing what didn’t work, he had an idea of what did work.

    But as with anything, James’ significance or lack thereof depends on who’s doing the talking, and what their POV is.

  10. old school says:

    I just think its funny that the kids today have all the answers. And think they know better then the ones actually involved. Just my thoughts.

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