Questions to Ponder

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13 Responses

  1. gatorman-uf says:

    1) Commentary is ok (at least on the blogs, Alligator Letters to me is a step over the line. BUT I would prefer commentary before action. Like I said, let us run our own elections

    2) Honestly, I don’t care about the whole system thing. Do I think there is a system? Yes. But the independents that join the system are rewarded for hard work. Greeks that bolt are upset that they aren’t getting enough, because they aren’t alrge enough.

    3) Under over is 15% in my mind

    4) I thnk the better question is would Swamp 2002 have been upset?

    5)

  2. Virgil says:

    1) Commentary far less disturbing than involvement.

    2) No, absolutely not, and Gatorman is completely wrong. Folks like Jared bolt the system because they’re tired of the oligarchy telling them what they’ll get and not get, what they’ll do and not do, and because they’re tired of the inaccessibility for other folks who want to get involved. Independents who join the system are doing so out of personal ambition and, while they may indeed eventually get rewarded for hard work, it’s only because their handlers want them to (see: Laura Gonzalez).

    3) As someone who watched Susan get over 800 signatures for her petition by herself, I have no doubt she’ll do terrifically in the election, and I know for sure she has at least one vote. 😉 I’d be surprised to see her get under 10%.

    4) Sure. In November, who expected us to be where we are now? Just because the outcome of February 28 and March 1 was determined a week or two in advance doesn’t make it any less of an upset. In fact, we’ve already won a smashing upset – we’re already working to pull apart the system with our support base. This is history in the making. We will speak of these days to our children.

    5) Not until someone stops feeding you information. 😉

  3. Ken says:

    SWAMP of 2002 was an upset of sorts – they won the Senate 20-19, plus a tie for Fine Arts. (Ignite had a majority of the Fusion/Voice senators carried over, broke the tie and won the Senate President by 1 vote.)

    Had Chris beaten Nikki, it would be in the same historical lineage as Access and the 1992 Action party, but most Independents wouldn’t speak of it as fondly as they do the other two victories. (I’ll blog on this election more later.)

    Actually, Nikki sealed her election victory the night she convinced Joel Howell to join her ticket. Up until that moment, the Engineers (including Joel) were possibly leaning toward Chris. With the Engineers, Chris could very well have won the election in 2002 even as he would have put a more Independent mark on his candidacy.

    (Unfortunately, Chris’s handlers were more interested in the Greek vote, which is, on the other hand, probably how they managed to slate Senate winners in Freshmen and Sophomores.)

  4. Ken says:

    And yes, I’m sure my interest would drop dramatically if I wasn’t being told what was going on. LOL.

  5. gatorman-uf says:

    Virgil,

    Please…. I won’t stick up for the system. The system exists, do I like it? No. Have I ever been rewarded by it? No. Anything that I have earned during my student organization career has been because I have earned it and I was the most qualified for it. No handlers for me. Nobody is going to call me a sell-out, because they have no proof of that. As for supporting John (as I have admitted that I do). I support John. John is a person of high character in my opinion and continues to be in my interactions with him.

    As for jared, I have had only one conversation with him. It was brief and he asked me for my contact info for something that I was working on at the time. Does this mean I think Jared should rot in hell? No. I actually cheered for his letters “bashing” IFC (quotes not meant as sarcasm, I just don’t what else to call it). But don’t make Jared out to be a hero of the independents or of the little known Greeks. Everyone knows he wanted the FBK nomination and the votes that go with it. If he had won it, he would be running the exact same campaign as John and Swamp. To pretend otherwise is to deny history and fact. I understand that has to be the spin of the Unite team, but let’s not go to extremes here.

    I think the bigger question is if Jared wins, how many legacies will he continue to have? My bet is all of them.

  6. gatorman-uf says:

    Oh and yeah, I would have considered the 2002 election a mild upset (no where near the 2004 election). Actually if DVDA had won a senate seat or have been in the top two (despite the loss) that wold have been an upset.

  7. Virgil says:

    If Jared starts handing out legacy positions, he’s going to have me to deal with.

  8. Ken says:

    What happens if no one else applies but those “legacy” appointments?

    Jared or John both need to do all they can to publicize every SG position and get as many applicants as possible.

    And if they then still pick legacy appointments, then raise some hell.

  9. Gatorman-UF says:

    Well, let’s be honest… I have no doubt in my mind that an AEPi or Thetha Chi (no matter who wins) gets their respected position (heck look at when Access won in 2004, AEPi and eventually a Thetha Chi go the positions and that was the independents). The question is how do you prevent that for the future? That’s where the leadership needs to be.

    I want a person who has experience running concerts or running large speaking engagements that leaves very few organizational people to run them… Seriously, how many organizations by themselves without Accent or SGP reserve the O’Dome, how many of them deal with O’Dome tech, Spinal Tech, and other on-campus venues. While I am sure that I could name a few of them, most if not all come from these large organizations and very few in those organizations can step up to the main position because they would rather be the next organizational president or if they are the organizational president, they would rather be the next senator or they are graduating….

    oh well enoy the weekend all

  10. old school says:

    This is a nice study dodge for me (studying taxation sucks), so lets answer those questions. Ken I always enjoy your blog. And I want to try to just post on yours so I don’t take up space for the current students on their blogs.

    1) Alumni involvement. Many of the kids who run the student campaign [Unite] worked for me back in 04. My brother still attends UF as a grad student in engineering so i still have some what of a tie to UF. So i think its cool (and an accepted practice) for alumni to donate money, which i will do. That is of course after I give my money to much more pressing charaties and causes. Also I am a fan of alumni commuincating advice and listening to the concerns of current SG kids, as Its a great learning experience for both the mentor and the mentee. When I ran the SG campaigns, I had a number of alumnis I could call up for advice.

    I think posting on the blogs is cool for alumni, since the blogs are only read by the SGA kids any way and only alumni can give you perspective on the old SGA campaigns. For instance, I would read the Gatorman’s analysis of the Access 04 campaign, and I can see that what a lot he got he got from the newspaper and probably being a freshman observing it from a far, which is cool. However there is a whole lot he didn’t know about and possibly can’t know about unless he interacts with multiple alumni who actually ran that campaign and that is evident in his writing and the writing of other bloggers that he didn’t. Its not a knock against Gatorman or any other blogger, as how many people who are alumni and are still around actually ran SG campaigns and want to talk about them?

    I am not a fan of alumni writing letters to the alligator. This stemmed from an instance in which my brother was attacked by alumni after he wrote a letter in the Alligator sticking up for my Access party (even though my brother does write some occassionally stupid letters, he used to do that just to spite me that I was so involved in SG). I don’t write letters to the Alligator, because I think the students should be themselves the ones doing that kind of stuff.

    2) I don’t think the indies sold out by backing Jared. They made the smart move. The charismatic guy who has been at UF for a while and has run student orgs knows his stuff. I would back a rebel FBK/greek, even if that rebel greek tried to get the system’s nomination previously (which Jamal tried to do also but you won’t hear that reported in the alligator), before I would back an indy who sold his soul just to get ahead. I guess that is my mentality. It didn’t used to be as I backed Chris (although i did so more because he was the guy who got me started, than for what i believed he stoof for). I can’t justify it or rationalize it, I just believe this way.

    3) I only remember Susan as that girl who used to sit behind the desks to collect SAR’s. Even if she hadn’t run before, she is probably going to be around Gerald Godwin 900 votes (percentages depend on the over all turnout), although I think Gerald probably had a bigger base as an engineer than Susan would because Gerald (the last guy to run as an independent for student body treasurer) was a leader in that community.

    I don’t know why she is running, she had her chance with the third party last year and didn’t make it. It would be one thing if she ran for treasurer and then president, like I believe you should have a shot at running for a different office if you lose. My personal advice for Susan is to be the Wade Vose of this campaign. Remember when wade left FSP after founding it in 2000, he championed the various initatives and fought against some ballot measures that would have screwed the school. She could do that, especially with her website, and be the watch dog of SG. I think a run for treasurer is a waste of her and her people’s time when they could be doing more constructive things.

    In interest of full disclosure, I think Lola Bovell would make a better student body treasurer in that Lola has actual org experience and would be more sympathetic to student orgs. Like that is my old BOCC mentality, a mentality which you share Ken. I also think Lola is a future Student Body President of UF, whether she wants to be or not.

    4) Unite is the continuation of the Impact/Access line and is apart. So a victory by them would be an upset. What is my reasoning? I was one of the people that created the Access Party so I can say say who is a continuation of my party 🙂

    Look forward to blog feedback!

  11. Gatorman-UF says:

    Old School and Virgil,

    My question goes to the selling out indy vs. the rebel Greek portion… I would point to the fact that John won as an Access member in 2004, I would point to the fact that he worked his way up with no ambitions last year of being President (until early Spring last year)…. But my question goes to the idea of what would have happened if Jared and John had switched roles would you still be supporting Jared? I mean why do characterize your choice by choosing whoever FBK doesn’t choose… I choose to support John, because I know John and trust John, whether John was the FBK candidate or not, he would have my support… On the other hand, you seem to choose only the candidate that doesn’t get FBK support. IF Jamal had won FBK support would you still have supported him or Chris?

    I would hope the answer would be yes for both of them, but somehow with the way you describe things, I somehow doubt it.

  12. old school says:

    Up late. That is an interesting question you pose.

    Jamal was not going to get FBK support no matter how much he tried. And when I say FBK support, I mean a majority of politically motivated FBK members supporting him. Please note there are a number of Keys who just don’t care about student politics, they are in law school and do other things. In addition we did have the support of a few Keys: Manny, Andre, Crystal Spearman, Will Sexton, Anna Shea (we had a few more come on board right after the general election and a few who privately supported us). If Jamal did get FBK support then he wouldn’t have needed me and I would have sat out that election, it was my final semester after all. I probably still would have voted for jamal since he was my friend since my freshmen year. Actually at one point when jamal dropped out, I talked to Toby philpot (big system guy) and would have quietly supported him if he ran as I like Toby and he knows his stuff politically.

    I know a little bit about John running with the Access party. I slated John back in 04 (and when I say slated John i mean Andre, myself, jamal, francis, alicia, mike, and dennis were in the slating room and made the decision which wasn’t hard since he was our only applicant for the fine arts seat). He was actually one of Jennifer’s kids, how it works in the slating room is that you slate your people first (generally each exec member can slate a couple of people and then you go by how the candidates interviewed etc., in the case of Greek party you go by which houses you need). I actually didn’t insist on many people other than andrew hoffman to be slated since I wanted to let the other members get their picks in before we went with the interviews, resumes (which upsetted some of my kids like Jill Greco who wanted to run). All I know about John since I left is when Dennis needed him, he went to the other side and I was not impressed. But I have an old school mentality.

    The truth was i was not a big carmody fan in terms of how he opperated. Even though Chris didn’t have the majority of FBK backing, most independent leaders didn’t support Chris because they saw him as a sellout, they actually supported nikki. Constituencies like engineering, etc. went strong for Nikki because of it. I was one of the few who did, but Chris was worried people like me would hurt him with the greeks so he never brought me in. Like I was honestly torn because my fellow Voice party member, Joel Howell, was on nikki’s ticket. I went with Chris because i felt obligated to support him (he began my SG career), and probably would have given the same support if he was the system candidate since I felt i owed him. Swamp/Ignite was a weird election for me and a lot of people.

  13. Michelle says:

    Hello there! I read these blogs all the time, and have recently decided to begin responding to things. This is actually the first where I’ve used my name!
    The reason why I personally support Jared & Brandon vs. supporting John & Lydia is because whoever helps a SBP get elected holds enormous influence over appointments and policy during that SBP’s term in office. It’s my understanding that the VP has little to no say on cabinet directors. It’s just my personal, humble, opinion that I trust the people running Jared’s campaign much more than the people running John’s campaign.
    People may come down hard on Jared for not implementing “true” online voting when he chaired the online voting commitee. I disagree… I believe he knew it wouldn’t pass, and so he struck a compromise. It’s called diplomacy.
    However, I was disappointed during “Lolagate” earlier this year when John allowed R&A to continue to recommend students for budget and allocation committee seats instead of students with organizational experience, like Lola. Did he EVER listen to the recommendations of Ally Cullin (former impact leader) or his fellow ACCESS senator and Judiciary Chair Becca Guerra? If he gets elected, especially with the party he has now, who’s to say that’s going to change?

    So long story short, it’s about more that just the candidate. It’s also about who’s supporting those candidates.

    And James, this election is turning out to be very similar to the Swamp/Ignite campaign of 2002. I actually remember helping Joel campaign for that election!

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